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    i vs. M - BMW F82 M4 drag races the BMW i8 or proof the Germans suck at drag racing

    The BMW i8 performs well for what it is. It is designed with efficiency in mind hence the 1.5 liter three-cylinder gasoline motor. Supplemented by an electric drivetrain the i8 output is 357 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque. It moves a fairly lightweight (for BMW anyway) 3380 pounds.

    Click here to enlarge

    The F82 M4 is heavier than the i8 and does not have all wheel drive. It sends an underrated 425 horsepower to the rear wheels. It has more power than the i8 and despite being rated at 409 lb-ft of torque this figure is also underrated. Raw grunt is in the M4's court.

    The disadvantage for the M4 is that it is carrying just under 200 more pounds and that it does not get the instant electric torque benefit or all wheel drive traction benefit. On paper the way this should go is the i8 opens a slight lead only for the M4 to easily pull past it.

    Test figures have shown the i8 go 12.3 @ 114 in the 1/4 mile and independent drag strip results from owners for the M4 show times in the 12.1 @ 116 range.

    So what happens? Well the geniuses at Auto Bild in Germany use some crappy damp road for the comparison. They actually do a slow motion capture of the M4's tires going up in smoke off the launch. That doesn't look cool guys, it make you look like you don't know what the hell you are doing.

    The i8 wins although we get no data to go with it. It really is a victory by default as if one car is sitting there spinning its tires and the other hooks up and goes it is no surprise it wins even if it is less powerful.

    What should be a cool comparison turns into a joke. The M4 has nothing to fear from an i8 in a drag race. Especially considering they have already gone low 11's.


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    "drivers"

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    So in the stop light GrandPrix, a i8 should handily beat the M4.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    So in the stop light GrandPrix, a i8 should handily beat the M4.
    No. Didn't you read?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No. Didn't you read?
    I did read. That's why I said stop light grand prix, not prepared drag strip with drag radials. The i8 will take the average M4 in Street trim across the intersection. Motor trend, etc have achieved 3.8 seconds 0-60mph. What did they test the stock M4 at?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    I did read. That's why I said stop light grand prix, not prepared drag strip with drag radials. The i8 will take the average M4 in Street trim across the intersection. Motor trend, etc have achieved 3.8 seconds 0-60mph. What did they test the stock M4 at?
    Dec 8th, 2014 Motor Trend test puts the M4 at 4.0 seconds. I would say the M4 will not beat the i8 in the stop light Grand prix up to 60mph or so that you would max out on the city. And again, not debating about going 80-100mph on city streets.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    The i8 will take the average M4 in Street trim across the intersection.
    So for 30 feet? Honestly, street tire M4's are cutting 1.7X or 1.8X 60 foots. If it isn't wet and the driver isn't a moron he isn't losing to an i8.

    Car and Driver got 0-60 in 3.7 for the M4.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    Motor trend, etc have achieved 3.8 seconds 0-60mph. What did they test the stock M4 at?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    I would say the M4 will not beat the i8 in the stop light Grand prix up to 60mph or so that you would max out on the city
    Well you're wrong.

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    This video is moronic...M4 is stick, not even an attempt to launch correctly. Of course on a $#@!ty surface the AWD i8 with a torque-converter auto is a mash-n-go piece of cake. M4 weighs only a bit more, has much more power and far superior transmission if you go DCT. Even with a stick, M4 is a faster car. This is just a fact. The i8 really is not that fast.

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    But now everyone is oh so impressed with the i8 and proclaiming how fast it is. This $#@! is garbage.

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    I don't understand why they make up nonsense (attention whoring) races like this; in the end it makes people lose faith in the author's ability to test a car with truth and accuracy. Yeah, it gives them some temporary "fame", but I will now question whether they really have my best interests in mind when watching/reading anything from them in the future. I am guessing the same goes for many other people that are enthusiasts (who are actually buying the cars). I don't see how this could possibly be worth tainting credentials over.

    ---

    Any car enthusiast knows the M3/4 (having almost 100 more HP) would win this race if it weren't "forced" to lose. I don't care if it's 0-60, 0-100 or 1/4 mile; the M is the faster car all over the place - and that's all that matters to an enthusiast buying a sports car... They honestly shouldn't even be compared; it doesn't make any sense.

    This type of race reminds me of the Tesla vs. M3 nonsense we saw awhile back. When you open up an M3 on the expressway, and realize the car isn't even in the same realm as say a Tesla (or i8), you start to wonder why these guys make these comparisons if it isn't for nefarious purposes.

    It makes me a bit angry to be honest - it's just a nonsense load of fluff.

    Argh...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But now everyone is oh so impressed with the i8 and proclaiming how fast it is. This $#@! is garbage.
    Car and Driver said the 3.7 second M4 run was with a warm up burnout, and the fastest of any M4 sample they had tested by a good .20 seconds.

    So if your at an intersection, without your burnout, launch control, and perfect launch, the i8 driver will merely mash the pedal and take you more often than not. Simple fact of what will happen in a normal encounter.

    And as far as the i8 being junk? It does pretty darn good for a 1.5L three cylinder engine with a barely 130hp supplemental motor. For all those critics of these type of drivetrain, just look at the P1, 918, etc. Electric motor hybrids own the Nurburgring record, and quickest production car records. A 918 and P1 both run in the high 9 second qtr mile range at well over 140mph. The P1 beats the Bugatti 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-150mph, and doesn't even have a gas guzzler tax.That being said, you should respect the i8 for what it is. The sport version will be quite a bit faster when it comes out. But this little three cylinder is a lot quicker than one would expect it to be.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    Car and Driver said the 3.7 second M4 run was with a warm up burnout, and the fastest of any M4 sample they had tested by a good .20 seconds.

    So if your at an intersection, without your burnout, launch control, and perfect launch, the i8 driver will merely mash the pedal and take you more often than not. Simple fact of what will happen in a normal encounter.

    And as far as the i8 being junk? It does pretty darn good for a 1.5L three cylinder engine with a barely 130hp supplemental motor. For all those critics of these type of drivetrain, just look at the P1, 918, etc. Electric motor hybrids own the Nurburgring record, and quickest production car records. A 918 and P1 both run in the high 9 second qtr mile range at well over 140mph. The P1 beats the Bugatti 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-150mph, and doesn't even have a gas guzzler tax.That being said, you should respect the i8 for what it is. The sport version will be quite a bit faster when it comes out. But this little three cylinder is a lot quicker than one would expect it to be.
    And if you doubt what I am saying, just look at the Motor Trend Worlds Greatest Drag Race...The i8 takes the M4 off the line. In fact, it looks like the i8 was in the top 3-4 of the quickest cars in the first view. Even halfway through the run the i8 was ahead of the M4. Well beyond city speeds. The i8 was 5mph down on trap to the M4, yet only got beat by .20 in the qtr. The i8, in normal conditions is the quicker car across the intersection.

    Freeze the video at 2:56, and 3:07 and compare the M4 vs i8 positions and you will see what I am talking about. Obviously much further than a city intersection before the M4 even catches the i8.

    Last edited by bmwsport; 01-04-2015 at 04:32 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    It makes me a bit angry to be honest - it's just a nonsense load of fluff.
    Exactly but people will buy into it and what can do you? 'Have you seen that video where the i8 smokes the M4?'

    Just idiotic. This isn't automotive journalism but sensationalism.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    Car and Driver said the 3.7 second M4 run was with a warm up burnout, and the fastest of any M4 sample they had tested by a good .20 seconds.
    If you say so. It trapped 119. It's not even close between the two.

    The M4 dynos more to the wheels than it has at the crank. Ok?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    And as far as the i8 being junk? It does pretty darn good for a 1.5L three cylinder engine with a barely 130hp supplemental motor. For all those critics of these type of drivetrain, just look at the P1, 918, etc. Electric motor hybrids own the Nurburgring record, and quickest production car records. A 918 and P1 both run in the high 9 second qtr mile range at well over 140mph. The P1 beats the Bugatti 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-150mph, and doesn't even have a gas guzzler tax.That being said, you should respect the i8 for what it is. The sport version will be quite a bit faster when it comes out. But this little three cylinder is a lot quicker than one would expect it to be.
    The comparison is junk, not the i8 itself.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    The i8 takes the M4 off the line. In fact, it looks like the i8 was in the top 3-4 of the quickest cars in the first view. Even halfway through the run the i8 was ahead of the M4. Well beyond city speeds. The i8 was 5mph down on trap to the M4, yet only got beat by .20 in the qtr. The i8, in normal conditions is the quicker car across the intersection.
    Did the M4 use launch control? Did they drop the tire pressure? What were the settings?

    The i8 is not a better drag car than the M4 I can't believe we are even debating this. The fact the M3/M4 are on the verge of 10's and the i8 is still wondering where its three other cylinders are is testament to that.

    By the way, her are the actual results for that race:

    Here are the results:

    1. 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S - 10.9 @ 126.0
    2. 2015 Nissan GT-R Nismo - 11.1 @ 125.3
    3. 2015 Jaguar F-Type Coupe R - 11.8 @ 122.3
    4. 2015 BMW M4 - 12.2 @ 117.8
    5. 2014 Camaro Z28 - 12.3 @ 117.2
    6. 2015 BMW i8 - 12.4 @ 112.1
    7. 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C - 12.8 @ 104.8
    8. 2015 Subaru WRX STI - 13.1 @ 104.4
    9. 2015 Volkswagen GTI - 14.5 @ 97.9
    10. 2015 Ford Fiesta ST - 14.9 @ 94.6

    The i8 gets crushed by a poorly launched M4. As it should...

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    Wink

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Did the M4 use launch control? Did they drop the tire pressure? What were the settings?

    The i8 is not a better drag car than the M4 I can't believe we are even debating this. The fact the M3/M4 are on the verge of 10's and the i8 is still wondering where its three other cylinders are is testament to that.

    By the way, her are the actual results for that race:

    Here are the results:

    1. 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S - 10.9 @ 126.0
    2. 2015 Nissan GT-R Nismo - 11.1 @ 125.3
    3. 2015 Jaguar F-Type Coupe R - 11.8 @ 122.3
    4. 2015 BMW M4 - 12.2 @ 117.8
    5. 2014 Camaro Z28 - 12.3 @ 117.2
    6. 2015 BMW i8 - 12.4 @ 112.1
    7. 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C - 12.8 @ 104.8
    8. 2015 Subaru WRX STI - 13.1 @ 104.4
    9. 2015 Volkswagen GTI - 14.5 @ 97.9
    10. 2015 Ford Fiesta ST - 14.9 @ 94.6

    The i8 gets crushed by a poorly launched M4. As it should...
    I already stated the i8 trapped 5mph slower, yet the M4 was only .20 seconds quicker in THIS test. Indicating the i8 launches better in normal driving conditions. (Your average stop light encounter). A 12.2 at that trap on street tires is not indicative of a horrible launch by the M4. No reason for the tester to intentionally mess up the M4 launch either. Look how close the Camaro and M4 are on traps and qtr. It all makes sense. A significant 5mph down on the Camaro, the i8 is only a tenth behind the Camaro because of the exceptional and effortless launch.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    Indicating the i8 launches better in normal driving conditions.
    All it indicates is the i8 launches consistently whereas the M4 needs a bit more skill to launch. If you take an M4 with a driver actively aware of how to launch it and attempting to get the best launch the i8 won't win as it can't.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    12.2 at that trap on street tires is not indicative of a horrible launch by the M4.
    Yes it is as the car is capable of going deep into the 11's on street tires as has been done. I ran 12.1 in a bolt on E92 M3, come on.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    No reason for the tester to intentionally mess up the M4 launch either.
    That doesn't mean he is experienced either.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwsport Click here to enlarge
    the i8 is only a tenth behind the Camaro because of the exceptional and effortless launch.
    Yes the all wheel drive and electric torque help. That doesn't change the fact the M4 is making a ton more power and torque and should not lose a drag race. It does not lose in the drag comparison you are mentioning so why does it lose in the OP? Strictly due to wheelspin not due to the i8 being faster as it is slower.

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    AutoBild is the equivalent of a tabloid magazine for cars - cheap journalism (if you want to call it that) and lots of colourful pictures. Mostly worthless stuff, not to be taken seriously. One should not put it into the same lot as the 'real' car magazines in Germany such as sport auto. 'The Germans' do not suck at drag racing, it's rather this sensationalist magazine.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    AutoBild is the equivalent of a tabloid magazine for cars - cheap journalism (if you want to call it that) and lots of colourful pictures. Mostly worthless stuff, not to be taken seriously. One should not put it into the same lot as the 'real' car magazines in Germany such as sport auto. 'The Germans' do not suck at drag racing, it's rather this sensationalist magazine.
    In General I'd say the Europeans are pretty poor at it. There are of course exceptions but I mean if a magazine is putting this kind of stuff out... it's sad.

    When I see some of the European videos it's just kind of lame the roads they use and the damp tracks. The British are the worst at this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    In General I'd say the Europeans are pretty poor at it. There are of course exceptions but I mean if a magazine is putting this kind of stuff out... it's sad.

    When I see some of the European videos it's just kind of lame the roads they use and the damp tracks. The British are the worst at this.
    That's just a sign of cultural differences. Drag racing is much less traditional and therefor popular in Europe than it is in the States. Around here, circuit racing is the norm rather than 1/4 mile.

    There are serious car magazines though that test their cars very professionally and also publish the 1/4 mile times that were measured, such as sport auto. The latter now even does a dyno test of the car that is subjected to their "supertest"; interestingly it was revealed a few months ago that the BMW M5 Competition Pack was measured with 630hp at the crank instead of the 570hp advertised, clearly indicating a dedicated press remap.

    I really wouldn't take Auto Bild too seriously.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    That's just a sign of cultural differences. Drag racing is much less traditional and therefor popular in Europe than it is in the States. Around here, circuit racing is the norm rather than 1/4 mile.
    Certainly true.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    interestingly it was revealed a few months ago that the BMW M5 Competition Pack was measured with 630hp at the crank instead of the 570hp advertised, clearly indicating a dedicated press remap.
    Where is this info?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Where is this info?
    You can see the diagram under the following link: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/b...toshow_item=33

    A summary of the supertest can be read here: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/s...e-8911761.html The full supertest can be downloaded as a PDF on the same page.

    I have to correct myself: The M5 Competition was measured at 649 hp (!) at the crank, i.e. 74 more than advertised. That was done on a MaHa dyno, the same on which all supertest candidates since 2012 (and some others) are dynoed.

    There can be no doubt IMO that BMW prepared this car with a dedicated press remap. No way such a significant increase in hp could be explained in another fashion. Cheats!

    P.S. Interestingly, the acceleration times of the even more powerful (at least on paper) M5 Anniversary Edition were measured (in the most recent issue of sport auto) to be slower (!) than those of the M5 Competition in the supertest. Another indication that the car sent to the supertest was not an ordinary one...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    There can be no doubt IMO that BMW prepared this car with a dedicated press remap. No way such a significant increase in hp could be explained in another fashion. Cheats!
    Did the magazine call them out on this?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Did the magazine call them out on this?
    Not in the sense that they wrote to BMW and asked for an official statement. Which I believe would be counterproductive as they do rely on the car manufacturers to make cars available for testing to them.

    They did however explicitly mention this discrepancy on a number of occasions, and not only in this supertest but also in other reviews in which the M5 / M6 participated.

    Another recent example: In the new February issue there's a supertest of an M6 Grand Coupé tuned by AC Schnitzer. Apparently the car already had 620hp (crank) in stock format, i.e. 60hp more than advertised which is close to the difference of the M5 Competition that I mentioned earlier. Interestingly, the AC Schnitzer M6 GC with 677hp at the crank (dynoed) was 4 seconds slower than the 649hp M5 Competition (probably due to the better ABS/DSC tuning of the M5 and slightly lower weight) around the Nürburgring.

    There were quite a few complaints from readers that these tests then do not have any value as the real customer who buys a car like this will not get a prepared press car with a different remap. True as this is, these magazines are not in a position to simply buy a car like this for a test and therefor have to rely on the car manufacturers making them available, otherwise they're out of business. I hope though that the more regular dyno testing will discourage this malpractice of cheating with remapped press cars.
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